The 4PM Podcast
Transforming 4PM through: Integration to Deliver Value!
The 4PM Podcast is the newest platform in the UrukPM Outreach Trio.
The outreach trio includes the Applied Project Management YouTube Channel, the Applied Project Management Blog Site, and the 4PM Podcast. We will use these three platforms in an integrated way to provide maximum flexibility and benefits to our community.
In these podcast episodes, we will discuss various topics related to 4PM. In this context, 4PM refers to project, program, product, and portfolio management.
Our topics include various educational content such as case studies, books, practical tips, the latest trends, the pioneering Uruk Platform, and future interviews with respected project management experts and thought leaders.
Do you have topics or questions that you would like us to discuss? Please share!
The 4PM Podcast
Beyond the PMO: Making Project Management a Core Function
In this thought-provoking episode of the 4PM Podcast, your host Mounir Ajam challenges conventional thinking around the Project Management Office (PMO). While the PMO has long been seen as the pinnacle of project management maturity, Mounir asks a powerful question: What if the PMO is just the beginning, not the end?
Tune in as we explore:
✅ Why the PMO shouldn’t be treated as the ultimate goal
✅ The critical shift from structure to culture in project delivery
✅ What it means to embed project management into the DNA of an organization
✅ How aligning strategy, governance, and leadership creates lasting value
✅ The roadmap to institutionalizing project management across all functions
This episode, titled "From Office to Organization", dives deep into transforming project management from a standalone department into a strategic, enterprise-wide capability — one that drives change, delivers results, and becomes as foundational as HR or Finance.
Whether you're a project leader, executive, or someone rethinking how your organization delivers value, this episode will leave you with a fresh perspective and a call to evolve.
🎧 Listen now and join the movement from PMO to institutional excellence.
#4PMPodcast #ProjectManagement #PMO #Leadership #OrganizationalChange #UrukPM
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#UrukPM #ProjectManagement #Podcast
Welcome to the 4PM podcast, where ideas take shape and strategies find purpose. I am Munir Ajam, founder and CEO of Uruk Project Management, and I have a deep-seated passion for project management and community development, drawing on decades of global experience across diverse industries and roles. I'm here to guide you through the transformative power of the 4PMs project program, product and portfolio management, and our focus on business-integrated project management. Let's explore how integration unlocks unparalleled value for you and your organization. Good day and welcome back to the 4PM podcast. I am Munir Ajam and today I want to talk about something I think is long overdue, going beyond the project management office.
Speaker 1:The PMO is often seen as the ultimate structure and goal of project management. However, what if I told you it's not the destination? Is there something bigger, broader and far more institutionalized? Let's take a step back and rethink this. A PMO is not the end game. It's a choice, the real win, making project management a core function in the organization, just like HR, finance or IT. I mean, think about it. You don't say let's build a finance office and then assume finance is covered. Finance is embedded in every part of the business. Shouldn't project management be the same? You know this next part of the episode. I want to call it from office to organization, because this is where things get real. I know the PMO has been a popular concept for years. It gives structure, oversight, guidance, sure, but many organizations stop there. They set up a PMO, assign a few people, put a few templates in place and call it a day. But what if the goal isn't to build a PMO but to embed project management into the very DNA of the organization? Let's take it further. When project management is institutionalized, it's not just the project manager's responsibility. Everyone, from department heads to operations to procurement, sees projects as part of their strategic contribution. It's not a side job, it's part of the core function. We're not managing projects for the sake of managing. We're delivering value. When project management is embedded this way, projects stop being isolated effort. They become tools of organizational transformation.
Speaker 1:Let's talk now about something just as important building a culture, not just a structure. Now, if you're wondering, how do we even start doing that? It's not just about structure. Even start doing that? It's not just about structure, it's about culture. So how do we get there? How do we shift from PMO thinking to institutional thinking? It starts with culture, and I don't mean motivational posters on the wall or a few project management workshops once a year. I mean developing a shared understanding across the organization of what it means to deliver value through projects.
Speaker 1:One of the key shifts we advocate at Uruk is seeing projects, programs, portfolios and PMOs as parts of a bigger system we call organizational project management and the project management function. And for that to succeed, the entire organization must be aligned. Strategy must inform projects, project must deliver products leading to value, and value must be measured not just by completing tasks but by achieving meaningful results. We need consistent language, governance and yes, consistent leadership support. You can't expect project managers to carry the load alone. You can't expect project managers to carry the load alone.
Speaker 1:Part four of the episode is the road to institutionalization. Institutionalizing project management doesn't happen overnight. It takes time and it requires a roadmap. Here's the thing. We can start small. Maybe your organization is still in the early stages. Maybe your PMO is focused on templates and compliance. That's fine, but means investing in developing people, not just tools.
Speaker 1:It means recognizing that change real strategic change happens through projects. We need to move beyond the how of project management into the why. Why are we doing this? What value are we delivering? How is this contributing to our business goals. To wrap up, I leave you with this the PMO is not the final destination, it's a stop on the journey. The real goal is to institutionalize project management, make it core, make it cultural. It's not about report and dashboards. It's about transforming organizations by delivering value consistently and strategically. At Uruk, we believe in this transformation. We've seen how powerful it can be when project management is no longer a side function but a core capability, and I hope today's episode gave you something to reflect on. As always, thank you for tuning in. I wish you success today, tomorrow and always, until next time.